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jjporApologies if I disappeared while seemingly in mid-conversation with you. No real reasons or excuses, except to say that I’ve had a few rough moments these past couple of years (who hasn’t?) and the main effect of this seems to be a tendency to let work and life get on top of me and time get away from me, and an inability to keep up with just about anything.
But yeah, as you might have guessed, it’s not entirely coincidental that I resurface at this moment, because – you know, 60th Anniversary and all that. Exciting…! I find myself looking forward to new Who, Beep the Meep and all, rather than experiencing a mixture of apathy and dread for the first time in some time, which considering how I used to trash-talk the first RTD/Tennant era while it was happening is bitterly ironic, or something. And at the same time people are shouting at the Doctor Who showrunner on the internet for things they imagine he said or meant or is secretly planning about something that doesn’t really affect most of them – just like old times!
So yeah, I’ve been watching some of the old Who that is now on the BBC iPlayer, starting at the beginning with Hartnell, according to the natural order of things. Too bad about the situation surrounding An Unearthly Child, but I have it on DVD. The original Dalek story remains quite something, with the Daleks themselves probably the best “acted” they’ve ever been, mainly thanks to the subtle touches injected by the prop operators inside them. The first time they interrogate the Doctor, with one of them “pacing” back and forth behind him in the manner of a cop in a hackneyed interview scene tickled me on this rewatch, and there were lots of little moments like that that I felt like I was noticing for the first time. Chesterton isn’t as slick as he thinks he is at this point in his hero career, and the Doctor’s callous self-centred attitude in these very early stories is kind of a hoot, as well as being wildly different from what we might be used to (and closer to the kinds of characters Hartnell tended to play in his career outside of Who). Following the development of all the main characters over these early stories really disproves the idea that character arcs were something that suddenly got invented in 2005. The moment between the Doctor and Barbara at the end of Edge of Destruction is lovely, and is also crucially important to how the show developed over the following years.
Watching the Keys of Marinus for the first time in a long time, I came to the conclusion that it isn’t anywhere near as bad as some people would have you believe, just a bit rushed (apart from the last-minute detour into courtroom drama, which is really fun with the Doctor going all Perry Mason for a bit and so on) and under-explained, but that’s part of the charm if you ask me. None of the little mini-adventures outstay their welcome, and at least two out of the four are actually quite interesting in their worldbuilding and themes. It’s funny how everyone seems not to care too much that the ostensible goodie Arbitan is actually a wrong’un who has coerced them into helping him fix his Mind Control Machine and the Voord, despite their great design turn out to be the blandest, most generic villains imaginable, especially when you’ve just watched the Daleks making their mark. To be fair, though, they hardly have any screen time. Overall, the story is just fine, even genuinely good in parts. Maybe my once-nitpicky standards have slipped a bit. I’ve got the Aztecs teed up next, which I have watched quite a few times more recently, or so it seems, but looking forward to noticing new things as I have been with all of these stories.
I guess I’ll probably be watching the new colour version of the Daleks, even if I’ve just watched the original version. Will be interesting with the full-length story fresh in my mind to see exactly which bits get edited out to bring it down to feature length. And the Tennant-fronted documentary from a couple of weeks ago looks like it could be good. I saw the clip of him watching McCoy’s audition tape, with McCoy nailing it immediately. Speaking of which, I also need to check out the Inside the TARDIS series but while I think it will be lovely to see the actors revisiting their characters I’m a bit worried about what they might have them saying. It’s bound to annoy me if it doesn’t conform to my weird idiosyncratic view of various characters and their relationships – but again, I sense that isn’t an uncommon thing on’t’internets at the moment. Still haven’t brought myself to watch Power of the Doctor, which is ridiculous I know. I could watch it on Saturday as a lead in to the new special. Who Double Feature? Sounds like a plan.
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Date: 2023-11-20 04:29 am (UTC)I too am interested in Doctor Who again FINALLY, and looking forward to the 60th anniversary. I'm glad you've been enjoying a re-watch of the Hartnell era.
I don't know about some of the other things you talked about. There's a documentary fronted by David Tennant? And something called Inside the TARDIS? I'll have to see if either of those are making an appearance on this side of the pond (or if I can watch them somehow regardless).
I did see Power of the Doctor and actually enjoyed a lot of it, so while I don't think you need to watch it to get up-to-speed, you might want to give it a try. There's a fair amount of Classic Who fan service in it that I think you will like. Tbh I found the actual plot very confusing, but that's typical for a Chibnall episode and at this point I will take whatever good bits I can out of one of his shows.
Hope you enjoy the special!
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Date: 2023-11-20 09:01 am (UTC)And something called Inside the TARDIS? I'll have to see if either of those are making an appearance on this side of the pond (or if I can watch them somehow regardless).
I'm pretty sure JJ means Tales of the TARDIS, which the BBC put on iPlayer alongside all the Who ever (except Unearthly Child because of the ridiculous current rights argy-bargy). They have selected 6 classic who serials and done specially edited versions that are topped and tailed by reunions between some familiar faces. The first is written by RTD, most of them by Phil Ford from SJA and the last one by Pete McTighe, who's been doing the lovely blu-ray trailer minisodes.
We don't know yet whether they will also be on Disney+ when DW gets there, but in the meantime, this user has all the extra material here on YouTube, if you want it. (There are about 3-5 mins before and after the serial for each one.) The BBC was putting out something themselves on YT yesterday, but I don't know if they are trailers or the clips, because, obv I am in the UK and watched them on iPlayer, so I didn't need to look, but you can investigate if you'd rather try the official channels first.)
The serials are Earthshock, The Mind Robber, Vengeance on Varos, The Three Doctors, The Time Meddler & Curse of Fenric. (I gather that lack of Four is to do with non-availability of Lalla, Louise and Tom, who were respectively abroad, busy, and not doing stuff for the BBC anymore.)
(You should definitely watch The Three Doctors bit! XD)
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Date: 2023-11-20 10:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-11-22 07:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-11-22 08:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-11-22 07:16 am (UTC)I don't have Disney+, so I'm not sure yet how / when I'll be able to watch the new episodes. I'm not even sure if they're premiering the special on Saturday here or not; information has been a little difficult to find. I miss the days of going to BBC America and seeing All-Doctor-Who-All-the-Time in the run-up to a big anniversary. Sigh.
Anyway, this Thursday is a big family holiday here in the US (Thanksgiving) and I'm out of town for the weekend, so even if I had Disney+ and even if they were showing the special on Saturday, I couldn't watch it until later. So I'll figure things out when I get back. In the meantime, I'm counting on you and JJ to let me know if it's worth tracking down or not.
Thanks for the info on Tales of the TARDIS! And happy 60th DW anniversary!
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Date: 2023-11-22 10:37 am (UTC)Happy Thanksgiving & I hope you manage to sort out ways and means of obtaining DW, despite all the streaming complications.
ETA: Oh, if you are looking for the new stuff, there's also a little documentary called Talking Doctor Who which is a collection of archive interviews with classic Who Doctors, fronted by David Tennant, who's also watching some of them and commenting on them.
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Date: 2023-11-22 08:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-11-20 10:05 pm (UTC)Yes, my enthusiasm is rekindled at the moment. We will see if RTD can do something about extinguishing it again, but I am being hopeful. I am loving Hartnell on this re-watch, line flubs and cackling and everything. It's great. :D
Thisbluespirit is right - I was blanking on the actual name of Tales of the Tardis, so I made a name up...! I'm not sure if the Tennant documentary (about classic Who and the actors who played the Doctor in it) is available outside the UK. There are ways and means, though, I am sure.
It is reassuring to read that about Power of the Doctor. I am thinking I am definitely going to give it a go at some point this week as a prelude to watching the new special. Making Saturday into some sort of Doctor Who fest is seeming very appealing to me at the moment, provided no rl stuff comes up. :D
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Date: 2023-11-22 07:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-11-22 08:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-11-20 08:51 am (UTC)Aw, watching the original team TARDIS slowly bond and grow is such a lovely way to celebrate! It's always been a comfort watch of mine.
I was going to say pretty much the same as
Not that I wish to add to your fannish to-do list, but I think you must mean Tales of the TARDIS and I can recommend. Are they good? I have no idea! Are they gratuitous fan service? Why, yes, sir. But did they make me cry like a baby through each one in the most ridiculous way? Yes, yes, they did. (You can judge me after if you don't like them, but I do advise tissues for any classic fan venturing that way.) Anyway, the new bits top and tail the serials that have been used, so you don't need to watch the whole episodes (unless you want to). Only one was written by RTD, the rest by Phil Ford (of SJA) and one by Pete McTigh (who wrote some of the lovely blu-ray trailer minisodes). The other good thing is that if there's any bit of them you would prefer to not accept as canon, the premise does rather allow for it being also possibly not real if you want (and very real if you do, and indeed, that, somewhere, somewhen, ALL possible canon realities exist!) I was a bit resistant, but also woke up at stupid o'clock to watch them on the 1st November (do not recommend, lol: watch at regular hours).
I'll say no more, but I know it's been a bumpy road lately, but both PotD and Tales ought to be safe enough. (The BBC suggest Tales should be watched in the order they've put them, but apart from the Earthshock one having slightly more explanation of the premise, I don't think there's actually any reason not to watch them in order of which one you most want to see, or to watch only the ones you want to see. I think they're also intended as neat little intros to Classic Who for people who haven't watched as well as a gift to us oldies, which is nice - I hope it works!)
I am feeling rather more grumpy about the actual specials, so I'm glad we do have something that isn't just an RTD fest for the 60th. (I mean, I will eat all my hats if he doesn't do a bunch of cameos somewhere across the three, and the PotD does set up things to be maybe not as real as they seem, potentially, but nevertheless, it's as if 1983 decided to do a Two, Jamie and Zoe fixit instead of the Five Doctors. I thought even if nobody else was available, Peter would walk through hell and high water to be in a multi-Doctor ep, but heigh ho. /switches off grumble mode. The CiN bit was entertaining enough, though! And lol at him doing a joke where half the point of it is flying by the heads of non-Classic fans. XD)
Anyway, largely: hi!! *hugs* (virtual hugs; harmless enough even if you didn't want them)
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Date: 2023-11-20 09:58 pm (UTC)Tales of the Tardis is of course what I meant, but couldn't for the life of me remember when I was typing this. Gratuitous fanservice is, as you know, kind of my thing so that sounds good...! XD Canon is less and less important to me, I find - I like the idea that it's all true in some timeline or other, even Scream of the Shalka and those weird 60s comic strips about Daleks. John and Gillian, Season 6b, all that business - Pertwee UNIT stories simultaneously taking place in the 70s, 80s and possibly the 90s as well. Why not? Lol. But what you say sounds very promising, and getting overly emotional about oldschool Who and the actors who appeared in it sounds very appropriate at the current time.
RTD winding up the grizzled old fans, eh? That's not like him... I know what you mean about the new specials. I for one would like nothing more than a big multi-Doctor indulgence with Capaldi and Tennant and the boy Smith, and Eccleston in the unlikely event he could be persuaded back. RTD and Tennant returning together (and Catherine Tate of course) is very much the equivalent of a football team trying to win the supporters' trust back after a bad spell by re-signing a well-liked old manager, or old player, or even better an old player *as* the manager. I see the logic of it, and I think I can live with RTD being annoying better than I can take Chibnall being annoying. You're right, though - Jodie deserved so much better than she got. Very glad to hear your positive words about Power of the Doctor too - it is very much on my list still. :)
And yeah, One and the original Team TARDIS are just lovely to re-watch, with all the quirks and occasional shortcomings of that era of television just being part of the experience honestly. I watched the first two episodes of The Aztecs over lunchtime today - it's an interesting story in lots of ways, and other one that keeps coming up in considerations of the kind of show this ended up being versus what it started out as. I'm not sure I believe Ian besting a warrior trained since childhood in hand to hand combat with his thumb, but that's the power of being one of the protagonists...!
Anyway, very nice to be back on here in some form. I will keep you posted as my anniversary explorations continue. :D
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Date: 2023-11-21 06:28 pm (UTC)I just watched the David Tennant/Classic Who documentary and it was really nice, actually.
watched the first two episodes of The Aztecs over lunchtime today - it's an interesting story in lots of ways, and other one that keeps coming up in considerations of the kind of show this ended up being versus what it started out as. I'm not sure I believe Ian besting a warrior trained since childhood in hand to hand combat with his thumb, but that's the power of being one of the protagonists...!
I love The Aztecs! And, I mean, Ian's martial skills are comparatively easy to handwave away quite plausibly, even though we're never given actual details on screen. He's a science teacher, may well have done biology as well as physics & chemistry (especially if he teaches general science), hence knowing the nerve cluster trick, I suppose. He would certainly have done National Service and, as I think he's supposed to be early 30s in 1963, he would have hit the exact point where he might have therefore fought in the Korean War. Plus, if he has any interest in any sort of sports or martial arts, as a young, single teacher, he'd absolutely have been roped into at least one club or youth club for weekly or monthly. I think it's one of those things where it looks weirder to us than it would have done to contemporary viewers.
But, yeah, Ixta has trained for years in types of fighting unfamiliar to him! I suppose that's why he does it by trickery, at least until he's had a bit more practice.
I love the way Aztecs has great character things for the whole TARDIS team, rather giving the lie to the fact that you can't have that big a team and use them well. Even with Susan side-lined this time around, she still gets a quite distinct little plotline of her own.
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Date: 2023-11-22 07:42 am (UTC)And wow, was the 50th really 10 whole years ago? That's crazy! What with the pandemic and no longer keeping up with Doctor Who, it really feels like I lost a bunch of years in there.
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Date: 2023-11-22 10:41 am (UTC)And wow, was the 50th really 10 whole years ago? That's crazy! What with the pandemic and no longer keeping up with Doctor Who, it really feels like I lost a bunch of years in there.
I know, it's just completely impossible, isn't it?
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Date: 2023-11-22 08:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-11-22 08:37 pm (UTC)It's a really good one, The Aztecs, obviously with many of the caveats regarding the approach to that kind of thing in that era. As you say, all of the characters get a chance to shine in different ways. The relationship between One and Barbara is front and centre again, which is always good and interesting. And yes, Ian clearly has skills. I like to think he was a cook in the army and picked it all up from paying really close attention in basic training and then helping out in school games as you say, although I'm sure if any official or semi-official media ever filled out his backstory it would turn out he was in the SAS infiltrating behind Red Chinese lines in Korea or something. If he's the same age as William Russell irl (I agree, though, he's probably meant to be a bit younger) he could even have been in WW2 - that might actually be 19-year-old Ian in The Great Escape...! He just looked twenty years older (I can't remember if his character is one of the ones the Germans shoot at the end - but even so, Ian has survived all sorts of allegedly non-survivable things in his time with the Doctor).
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Date: 2023-11-22 08:53 pm (UTC)I decided I ought to be watching something myself, and remembered that I got the DVD of The Tenth Planet for a birthday or Christmas a while back and it's been waiting for the right moment. So I'm doing Cybermen and the first regeneration, with a spot of Ben and Polly.
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Date: 2023-11-23 11:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-11-24 10:03 am (UTC)The original Cybermen are indeed, so creepy. The rest of the serial is a mix of good stuff and that very tiresome Kit pedler/Gerry Davis stuff (they were SO much better in Doomwatch! Although even then the audience of 1970 had to write in to tell them they were being sexist, although to their credit, they apologised and did much better next series.) Ben winds up getting injured again. You'd almost think he just likes the attention it gets him from Polly!
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