A SPOILERY Thought About The Girl Who Waited

[jjpor]

I liked that one rather a lot - the first S6 story since, oh...The Doctor's Wife, probably, that I can go, unreservedly "that was a good'un, that one!" (The Gangers two-parter - okay, mostly. AGMGTW - surprisingly disappointing - I may elaborate on why another time. Let's Kill Hitler - pretty good from an entertainment point of view but kind of empty when you got past the fun bits. Night Terrors - a damp squib, to be honest). But yeah - liked it. Gillan, Darvill, Smith were ace and you know, it was actually about stuff. You could actually consider the options and decisions the characters took on a basis that was more than just timey-wimey technobabble.

So, thumbs up! The SPOILERY question I wanted to pose, though, was this:

I'm no doubt doomed to be proved wrong by Moffat's perverse Master-like urge continually to pull rugs and never take the obvious route, but does anyone else reckon that at the end of this series we might be faced with a situation similar to the one we got here with the two Amys? I.e. our heroes will be presented with a chance to rescue baby Melody (and maybe coincidentally prevent the Doctor's death), but only at the cost of erasing River Song from history forever? You know, they do keep hammering the "time can be rewritten" thing. Or would that just be rubbish?

Next week looks like a corker, just going from the trailer. We will see...

Comments

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

I think that doppelgangers has become a definite theme. Likewise with alternate versions of reality. And the fact we didn't see the ganger doctor actually die in that two parter, makes it pretty certain to my mind that the doctor we saw killed at the beginning of the season will turn out to have been the ganger doctor.

[jjpor.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't rule it out. I wouldn't rule anything out at this point. The main argument I think of against it would be that the Gangers seemed to pretty instantly turn into white ooze when they died, whereas the dead Doctor lasted long enough for his Darth-Vader-style funeral and all that. But ultimately, who knows what's actually going to happen?

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

And yes, Night Terrors was a bit disappointing wasn't it. I haven't been able to put my finger on what I didn't like about it yet, but it's not an episode I think I'll ever want to see again.

[jjpor.livejournal.com]

I wonder maybe if all the hype about it being the scariest thing ever etc etc did not do it any favours? Plus the creepy dolls being so prominent in the publicity when in the event they weren't even in the story that much. It seemed like a different, lesser story from the one I had been led to expect, I suppose. Not bad, exactly, just...average. I'd probably say it was better than Curse of the Black Spot, though. :D

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

I'd missed the hype, but yes that won't have done it any favours, because it reallyw asn't that scary an episode. Those were in fact about the least scary creepy dolls I've ever seen. And usually I am creeped out by dolls.

But yes. Curse of the BLack Spot. How on earth did that pass quality control.

[jjpor.livejournal.com]

As you say, for a "scary" story to be pretty much completely unfrightening represents a major setback, really. :D But yes, the last two eps will really have to make an effort if they want to dethrone Curse of the Black Spot from its current spot as Dud of the Season...

[clocketpatch]

All this time I've been thinking that Rory is going to buy the farm somehow (permanently) and especially after that ending because wouldn't that just be the the cherry on top of the tragedy? - Amy gives up her days so that she can grow old with Rory and then Rory dies. :S

But... with all of the themes of time being rewritten and the impossible conundrum played out at the start of this series, and River's insistence that her life not be rewritten... I think you might be spot on the money there.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

(The Doctor's Wife, as you know, was my other favourite episode this series, and I find it interesting that both dealt with Amy and Rory's fear of losing the other. House's nightmare was almost a perfect reversal of the scenario, right down to the abandoned partner being hunted and harmed by an uncaring alien force)

(Except in this case the force was caring. Everyone was caring. Everyone was doing their level best to do the right thing. Even Eleven with his shifty manipulative ends-justify-the-means Seven levels of bastardly-ness. They were all trying to be kind. That's what makes it so damn tragic)

[jjpor.livejournal.com]

Don't say that...! O.o I fear for poor Rory, I really do, given his illustrious past-record of, you know, not not dying. They couldn't do that to him again, surely...? I wonder if we're not going to see something of a watershed in his relationship with the Doctor, though, as that producer bloke seemed to be hinting at in the confidential? You know, setting the stage for a Tegan-like departure? I hope not, because I think this Team TARDIS is really impressing me this series and I don't think even Moffat is cruel/misguided enough to split Rory and Amy up, not after all they've been through together. I'd get like one of those rabid Torchwood fans who wanted to lynch RTD after Ianto kicked the bucket...;D

I wouldn't rule something like that out, the River thing I mean. I don't know if it will happen, or is even likely to, particularly, but if it does you heard it here first.

Yes, I got the same Doctor's Wife vibe as you - good point about the role reversal too. And yes, it was as you say a story without any baddies, a refreshing change. Everybody was trying to do their best, and it still turned out the way it did. And you can debate as to which Amy they should have taken at the end - I mean, I think they made the right choice, as gut-wrenching as it was, but I'm sure somebody else could make a case for the other. The thing was, though, a nice guy like Rory wouldn't have made any decision without the bastardly Doctor giving him a nudge, because as you say he was doing what he thought was the right thing as well.

[akashasheiress.livejournal.com]

'Sup! I miss your comments...

Er, just saying that because I haven't seen the episode, yet.

[jjpor.livejournal.com]

It's a good'un, I think. I think there are probably some sort of problematic elements to it, but I think the thing is they're supposed to be a bit problematic and it's supposed to be a thorny, near-impossible dilemma for our characters. You know, as opposed to a fake, hand-wavy sort of dilemma like in the Silurians two-parter in S5.

And always good to be missed. I've been a bit like the Scarlet Pimpernel round the internets the last couple of weeks, I admit. And have so far failed completely to put sufficient thoughts together to do the sort of long-winded reaction posts I used to do in my vigorous youth... ;D

[akashasheiress.livejournal.com]

I'll watch it because at least it doesn't have you-know-who in it.

And I actually meant you commenting on my entries, but, yes, your own posting, too ;)

[jjpor.livejournal.com]

As good a reason as any! :)

Yeah, my keeping-up-with-LJ failure has been a bit embarrassing, really, and not just LJ. Don't worry, I'm not shunning you or anything (not that you thought I was). ;)

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

So, just how many Amys is the Doctor going to kill for not being the right Amy this season?

[jjpor.livejournal.com]

Oh, as many as it takes, I'd imagine. All of them, quite possibly. You know, darker 'n' edgier, like a 1990s superhero or something.

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

That is a really, really interesting idea. Of course, my first thought is that erasing River means the Tenth Doctor dies back in The Library, but maybe time heals around that somehow. (Most likely that potential paradox wouldn't even be mentioned, though.)

I'd be sad to see River erased, but happy that Amy and Rory get baby Melody back . . . and it would let Moffat get the final word on the fate of River . . . and it would also be pretty epic.

[john_amend_all]

Erasing River means Ten never goes to the library in the first place :-)

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

Ha, you're right! There we go then, problem solved. : )

[jjpor.livejournal.com]

Yes, what he said! :)

[jjpor.livejournal.com]

As I say to Persiflage below, I don't in the cold light of day think it's all that likely that it will happen that way, but it would have a certain wrap-it-all-up-with-a-bow quality to it, it'd pass muster as a bit of clever-ish Moffatian timey-wimeyness, he'd get to give River another tragic ending, and if you sort of squint and wave your hands a bit all of the other issues of causality, continuity etc will just disappear, right under that rug there. ;)

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

I don't Moffat will do that. I think he'll keep River's ending as-is...

[jjpor.livejournal.com]

I think you're probably right - Moffat does like River a lot, it would seem, and her initial entrance/exit were pretty good, really, so it'd be a pity to say it had never happened. And plus I never call it right when it comes to future developments in Who. I seem to recall going around telling anybody who'd listen that Paterson Joseph was a dead cert to get cast as Eleven... ;D

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

LOL Oh how wrong you were!

[jjpor.livejournal.com]

Oh, indeed. At least I didn't actually bet money on it or anything... :)

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

Phew!!

[jjpor.livejournal.com]

Yeah... :D

[akashasheiress.livejournal.com]

It was...? :p

ETA: And, er, that was meant to be light-hearted teasing, btw, not an attempt at mocking your opinions or anything :D Although her not being erased means we'll have to endure Eleven crying over her *gag*

[jjpor.livejournal.com]

Well, comparatively. Think of some of the things that came since. And there's a :p back at you. :D

I think you have a point - I think if anything drastic did happen to River in the series finale, a) it probably wouldn't be as drastic as what happened to her in her first appearance, and would moreover make that story pointless in hindsight (more pointless, you might say ;D), and b) I don't think I can stomach the idea of Eleven crying any more than you can. For one thing, it'd be wildly out of character imho. I imagine him being more kind of evasive and in-denial about personal tragedies, even when it's just him and the TARDIS.

[akashasheiress.livejournal.com]

IDK, I mostly remember the whole ''But I'm the most important person in your liiiife! Why don't you recognise meeeee! It's not like we're time-travelers or anything!'' Either way, I'm betting anything that she won't be finished by the end of this series, which probably means that next season will have titles like ''The Grocery Shopping of River Song'' etc.

Well, I'm guessing that the crying thing will be to show how Extra Special she is to him. Never mind that Amy and Rory probably won't get to say goodbye to their own kid or anything. Romantic Love is All That Matters, after. Which reminds me:

I'm sort of the opposite on Moffat-never-takes-the-obvious-route thing. I sort of feel like he usually winds up picking the obvious 'solution' to things, only people expect it to be unconventional because he makes things appear a lot more 'clever' and complex than they actually are. And no, I'm not bashing just to bash. It's just my analysis of things. :)

[farsh-nuke.livejournal.com]

Considering how gut wrenchingly wrong I was about who River Song is and Who she killed. I think this is possible.