&quot;No, Not the Mind Probe!!?!&quot;

Seven!

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Hmmm...

a. His sense of right and wrong, and his willingness to do whatever it takes to fulfil that sense. Moral purpose, maybe; he acts with a definite agenda, without fear or favour, but for the best of reasons. And he regrets it when he has to do questionable things for the sake of those reasons, instead of shrugging the consequences off like many "heroes" seem to do (although it doesn't stop him!).
b. The way he sometimes oversteps the mark in his self-appointed mission. I'm talking about things like manipulating Ace; he does it for her own good, mostly; cruel to be kind. But sometimes, the cruelty outweighs the kindness, especially for someone like Ace who isn't the most stable of people to begin with. I'm probably just being soppy, there; Ace could take it, really, and seems to have ended up better off as a result of it all, so...
c. The Seven/Rani vibes we get in Time and the Rani make me smile. I think it could work, in a weird way. Or the girl Ray in Delta and the Bannermen; there was something very cheerful and healthy about their relationship, quite different from the twisty, twisted friendship he later had with Ace. The idea of him catching up with Romana years later also interests me, when they've both been through so much and become such different people to the carefree honeymooners-around-the-universe they were in S17; it'd be very bittersweet, I think. Okay, that was three people. ;D
d. Hmmm...I'm racking my brains on this one, and I'm coming up blank. Despite what I say above and below, I don't know if I really think of Seven in "shippy" terms, in that sense; any ideas?
e. Well, I've talked about it before, but I think Seven would be excellent in an X-Files story. To Mulder and Scully, he would probably come across as the de facto villain of the week, and they'd never quite get a handle on who he was or what he was up to; they'd just be left to clear up the debris he left behind.
f. Well, _my_ ship from hell where Seven is concerned is him/Ace. I'm not saying that there wasn't something there that went beyond mere friendship/mentoring, something deep and dark and psychological, but nothing straightforwardly physical. The idea squicks me out a little. ;D
g. Mr Tambourine Man; I don't know, it seems to capture something of the magical, pied-piper-ish aspect Seven can have. As well as being incredibly psychedelic; as Ace observes in Greatest Show in the Galaxy, he's a bit of an old hippy. ;D
h. I don't think Seven would ever write an autobiography. Ten, however, just before he regenerated, found a five hundred year diary in the TARDIS library, crammed full of tiny, neat handwriting. It made for some disturbing reading.
i. Would you allow yourself to dream if you'd done the things Seven's done? He does, however, occasionally get some of his past incarnations trying to have a word with him telepathically as he sleeps. He ignores them.
j. Well, we know how, and very ignominious it was too. I'd like to say there was some sort of bitter dramatic irony in the ultimate schemer and plotter getting killed as a result of carelessness and blind bad luck (and medical negligence - Grace!), but I don't think the people behind the TVM were that clever. ;D

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Seven/Romana: I know you want it.:D

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Resist...must resist... ;D

It's growing on me, I have to admit...

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Yes, you must! If you're going to desert that novel to write something, more Ace Rimmer in the world is much more entertaining.

Plus, if you do, I'll write something very disturbing. I haven't decided yet, but Seven/Rose, maybe even *gasp* *horror* Seven/Ace. (If I time travel back to when I was a teenager and it wouldn't have seemed so awful...) :-p Or a Doctor dumps Romana fic. :lol:

Not that I'm trying to influence you or anything.

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Your hatred of Romana is duly noted.:D

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Aw, no such thing! I just want variety in my post-Four Doctor ships. And for some reason I don't much like the idea of Seven/Romana, although if anyone could pull me round, it would be JJ> (I didn't much like that idea of Seven/The Rani, either.) For Seven, it definitely ought to be some wistful, unequal, cross-species affair. ;-D

I have a feeling that my threats are much more likely to get him to write it than vice versa, as then I'd have to... What did I say? Eek. 8-o

Edited Date: 2010-04-01 05:06 pm (UTC)

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Well, writing one ship doesn't prevent the writing of another, does it?;)

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True! :-)

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No no - normal service resumes on the Black Bore as soon as...well, as soon as I stop wasting all my writing time on livejournal... ;D

No - soon! Like, this week sometime. I've got some random background stuff on religion and magic in the fantasy world in question that I was messing with the other day - might post it to see if anyone thinks I'm barking up the wrong tree (or just barking!).

So, don't write disturbing things involving Seven! Or do, if, you know, you want to; I'm always reading things I know will probably disturb me. I'm a glutton for punishment like that.

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Seriously. I don't think I could. I don't know what I was on when I posted it. :lol: I would find it easier to write, as you say, a sort of wistful, distance grown between them (due to scheming Doctor and President Romana) Romana/Seven than any of those alternatives. *cough*

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I think that is the way forward as regards Seven/Romana - certainly, it's probably the way I'd go were I to do it.

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No, you really mustn't; who says you can't do several things at once!;D

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Well, as you say. Although my time management is a bit dodgy at the moment for some reason - I seem to find myself with a lot of things to do, and never end up doing any of them...

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:-)

And I am so impressed you managed to ship him with three people, and only one of them was Romana.

Heh. I like the idea of Ten reading Seven's diary with his hair standing on end. Oh, wait, it does that anyway...

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Watching Delta and the Bannermen again only a few weeks ago, I'm starting to come round to the idea of Seven/Ray and the road not taken. I think you wrote fic about it, didn't you?

I just hope he didn't get led astray by some of the things he read about (although Ten was of course capable of all sorts of questionable things; he just cried about them more afterwards).

Oh yeah, right; I'm being nice about Ten now he's dead, poor fella... ;D

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I did, yes. And a drabble. And another, but it's not like I'm obsessed, or anything.

(PS Do you really see him with the Rani? I admit, I've only seen part of Time and the Rani, but I'd be happier shipping him with Mel... and that's really not the sort of thing you ought to type where other people can see it. :lol:)

Yes, this Ten-bashing has got to stop. :-D

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To be truthful, I had a bit of a hard time answering some of the above questions, for the reason that, well, I don't really "ship" Seven with anyone. Except Ace, maybe, but not Seven/Ace - their "thing" is much more complex and elusive than that sort of business (which I would find a bit embarrassing and to be honest just plain wrong to read, but that's me). Which is why I like the idea of Ray, because it's sort of like what he later has with Ace, but much fluffier and more normal and less manipulative - like the life he could have had if he hadn't gone down the whole Ka Faraq Gatri route. Once he is full-blown Dark Seven, I don't think he allows himself to have those sort of soft emotions with regard to anyone but Ace. And if he did, it'd only be as part of some gambit, and the romantic partner in question would probably end up not being too happy about it.

So, while I could sort of see Seven/Romana, it probably wouldn't really have a "/" if I was writing it - it'd be very low-key and wistful and more of a catching up with each other and wondering how they got from punting in Cambridge to blowing up planets and stuff. So, probably not any hot Timelord on Timelord action, if you see what I mean... ;D

I find the idea of any Doctor/the Rani kind of amusing, if I'm honest. I can _almost_ see it in Time and the Rani - if I sort of screw my eyes up a bit and put my head on one side and use my imagination... ;D

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Personally, I think some of that dark Doctor stuff is just Seven's propaganda! He never seems to have things as plotted out as he thinks... or he wants everyone else to think - whatever the case actually is. I think Two might secretly have been darker!

No affection for anyone but Ace? Do you mean that? That would be very unDoctorish, and not nice. (Plus, it's not what we see on screen, even in S26. Think of Battlefield just for starters! But it is a very close relationship. But there, I always find that in the end, darkness and angst just end up rather boring, so I'm biased. And possibly still in denial over the NAs, and What They Did To Ace. Heh.

And, if we're going to bring in the NAs, that begs the question: what about Benny?

Well, I've only seen half of Time and the Rani once. Next time I do, I shall have to squint, then... :lol:

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Oh yeah, definitely - look at things like Greatest Show in the Galaxy, where he definitely isn't as in control of the situation as he would like everybody (especially Ace!) to think - they try to say he planned it all out like that at the end, but I'm not buying! ;D

I'm probably talking up Dark Seven in my comment above just the way Dark Seven himself probably would. As you say, in Battlefield, he shows very obvious affection for the Brig, and a sort of tolerant amusement for Ancelyn/Bambera, it could be argued. So no, it's not just Ace, but his relationship with Ace is a special one, I think, even by the normal standards of the Doctor's relationships with his companions. To try and state what I think a bit more clearly, I don't think that "Dark Seven" post-Remembrance necessarily was who Seven _was_, but it was a persona he maybe _tried to be_ because it made it easier for him to carry out his self-imposed missions. But there was inner conflict there - he couldn't be as dispassionate and ruthless as he would maybe like to be. The cafe scene in Remembrance, I'll say again - it's a crucial scene for Seven - he makes the hard choice, but he doesn't particularly like it, but once made he sticks to it and keeps all of the pain and doubt to himself. He'd never burden Ace with it the way (sorry Ten!) Ten, for example, might have.

Which doesn't really explain my bizarre comment above about Seven not allowing himself "soft emotions"...even if he sometimes tried to hide or suppress them for "professional reasons", as you say to not have them at all would not be very Doctorly. I guess it's just my way of saying I have a really, really hard time "shipping" Seven with anyone in that fanficcy sort of way. He doesn't seem the type for romantic relationships, especially not in S25-26.

But yes, what about Benny?

And yes, Two - not to be underestimated! Definitely not...

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Of course, my denial over the whole dark Seven thing is just my soft emotions... I'd have to abandon him if he were really that bad (and he may be - the audios are now officially creeping me out a bit. Except love The Settling) and I can't abandon *my* Doctor. Or Ace. :lol:

I'm glad you didn't really mean that affection thing - and, yes, there's definitely a special relationship there with not many (Or any) other equivalents in other shows I can think of. I think one of the things I liked about last week's episode was it kind of showed that magic Doctor-companion thing (or started to) instead of just telling us. (And it also made me think that my allergy to have 80s Doctors/Romana ships is because of this: that relationship is special, no matter who's the companion - although more so with some than others - and *that's* the important relationship the viewer is buying into, never mind what you see it as, and anything less starts getting as annoying as Ten pining for Rose when he's got Martha or Donna or whoever. That's why it makes me want to slap people and throw things, I realise. It's a case of 'love the one you're with!' :lol: Does that count as almost me having a theory or an opinion for once?)

Heh. No, Seven isn't especially shippy, but I quite like the idea of him connecting with other broken-hearted sorts, whether shippily or not, like with Ray. (Hence him getting Charlotte Bronte in that fic - and also why I very much like the idea of Seven/Beatric Potter that you proposed... Erm... How did THAT happen, then? :lol:)

Well, it's not exactly a cold, distant, not-at-all close relationship, is it? And the first time he's a bit better looking, she throws herself at him. :lol: I may sometimes go on about how scarred I am by the NAs (it's only a bit true, I did enjoy the majority of them!) but I love Benny and Seven, and the way she seems to pop that propaganda bubble of angst and all-powerfulness that he's trying to set up, nor will she stand for being manipulated if she can do anything about it.

:-)

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I like your theory/opinion! You should have them more often! XD. Yeah, the Doctor/companion thing really is special, isn't it, and NuWho has never really captured it just so (although as you say, the early signs for Eleven and Amy are kind of hopeful), and multi-Doctor anniversary stories notwithstanding, living in the past is never an attractive thing. I mean, I'll admit I'm very taken with Doctors/Romana (it's just the way I roll), but I don't think I'd like to see him obsessing over past companions all the time on the telly. As you say, Ten/Rose...

Well, no, I agree that they really started to overdo the Seven darkness in the spin-off media. The NAs weren't actually that bad to begin with, but as they grew further and further away from the TV stories, you got some very grim stories indeed and Seven became something of a grim character. Which isn't right; even when he is at his scariest and most manipulative in the TV stories, he maintains that quirky humour and whimsy, and the closeness between him and Ace always shines through. So, while I liked most of the story ideas in the NAs, I think the later ones were definitely the poorer for not having that.

Although, as you say, Benny did play a positive role; I think Seven always needed someone he could be more open with, in between the adventures, someone who understood him a bit too well, someone he couldn't fool. A friend, basically, and that's what Benny was to him. I like The Dying Days, too, the jokey little epilogue bit notwithstanding; it's like the bestest fanfic ever written, and I just wish they'd have the Ice Warriors in NuWho and portray them exactly the way Lord Szaal, or whatever his name is, and his followers are portrayed in that book, because they were great. :D

I want...I want to write a fic about Seven and Ace as seen from the POV of some redshirt guard or secret policeman or something in some empire they're toppling - how they would be just about the most terrifying thing some part-of-the-problem lowgrade scumbag like that could possibly encounter, but also staying true to the qualities I mention above. I wanted to do it for that Big Finish thing, but I found myself pressed for time in the end and kind of forgot my first idea, and for some reason ended up doing something slightly different and Ace-POV instead. I kind of wish I hadn't now... *sighs*

But yeah, Seven/Beatrix Potter...I don't know where that came from either - it was a flash of inspiration, or a moment of madness. It's not a bad idea, though, is it? I like the idea of them just bumping into each other on some lakeside path on a rainy day in the Lake District, and just having a little whimsical, melancholy sort of conversation about talking animals and William Wordsworth (because Four or someone totally used to go hellraising with those Romantic poets, I'm sure). In the rain. Under the brolly, looking out across the grey, hazy lake...yeah... And then he wanders off because Ace is waiting for him, and they never see each other again...

Awww... :)

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